Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Lessons in Tanya, chapter 15.
Welcome everyone to another deep dive. Today we're plunging into chapter 15 of this really extraordinary spiritual text. It's guided so many people, you know, on their path of self understanding and growth. Our mission, like always on this show, is to take this, well, profound source material and really pull out its most crucial insights. We want to make these complex ideas clear, relatable and frankly useful for you.
And this chapter, chapter 15. It's especially interesting because it tackles a question that I think trips up a lot of people in any kind of self improvement, not just spiritual stuff. How do we really tell the difference between, you know, different levels of commitment or achievement? We'll look at why some ancient writings use terms that seem, well, they seem repetitive, maybe even contradictory at first glance. But this isn't just an academic puzzle. This deep dive actually offers a kind of shortcut to understanding distinctions that really impact how we see our own efforts, our, our progress, even maybe our failures in pretty much any area of life. It gives us a new way to think about mastery and diligence.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: That's a great way to put it. This chapter really is a cornerstone. It offers, I think, unparalleled clarity on these various states of the human spirit and doesn't just give definitions, right. It unpacks the dynamics, the, the intricate push and pull inside us, those inner struggles. We all know, as we've talked about before, that journey inward is. It's rarely a straight line. This chapter helps us map the twists and turns with amazing precision. So yeah, we're going beyond just defining terms. We're getting into the kind of lived experience of spiritual effort and the subtle differences between striving and just natural inclination. It's about understanding where you might be on that spectrum and what your real service actually looks like.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Okay, so let's unpack this. Let's lay the groundwork.
You might remember from our previous dives, the author sets up this fundamental distinction between two main types of individuals. It gives us a framework, right? First up, there's the perfectly righteous individual. Now, for those familiar with the text, this is obviously a very high level. This person is described as someone who genuinely has no inner negative drive. Not that they never had one, but through immense effort, it just doesn't attract them anymore. Their soul is, well, it's purified, completely refined, free from any pull towards negativity or self serving stuff. Imagine like a path where all the rocks and thorns have been cleared. Just smooth sailing. No temptations pop up, no inner fights because, well, the war is over for Them, their inner world is just calm, aligned. The thought of doing something wrong, it just doesn't even register. You know, it has no group, right?
[00:02:28] Speaker B: And then in stark contrast, you have the intermediate person. And this is probably the state that most of us can relate to, wouldn't you say? Anyone on a spiritual path where really anyone just trying to be consistent with anything for this intermediate person, that inter negative drive, oh, it's definitely there, it's strong, it's active. And crucially, it still seems pretty desirable sometimes. It's not that they act on it, but the urge, the desire is real.
Their state is all about constant vigilance. This ongoing moment by moment inner struggle. Their higher self, their divine soul is basically working full time to keep the lower animalistic nature from spilling out into negative thoughts or words or actions. So if the perfectly righteous person has that clear path, the intermediate person is navigating a minefield maybe, or at least a path with constant obstacles. They have to be aware, make conscious choices, override those impulses again and again. It's active combat inside, not passive perfection at all.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: That distinction really does set the stage. And what's so interesting is how this understanding them solves this old puzzle from ancient writings. There's this verse, right, from a major prophetic text that says, and you will return and see the difference between the righteous man and the wicked, between he who serves G.D. and he who serves him not.
Now, ancient scholars looked at this and they spotted what seems like, well, redundancy. There's this ancient wisdom text that points it out directly. It asks basically, why say the same thing twice? I mean, righteous man sounds exactly like he who serves gd, doesn't it? And wicked man seems pretty much the same as he who serves him not.
So why the repetition in such a careful text? It is hints that there's something deeper going on. Some distinction we're missing on the surface.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Exactly. It implies a subtlety. And then the ancient wisdom text gives this partial answer which honestly at first just seems to muddy the waters even more. It says, and this is the quote, both he who serves G.D. and he who serves him not are fully righteous. Okay, wait a minute. Both righteous, both fully righteous. Yet one who reviews his studies 100 times cannot compare to he who reviews his studies 101 times.
So you read that and you think, huh? First it says the one who serves him not isn't wicked like the verse seemed to imply. No, they're fully righteous. They just study a bit less diligently. 100 reviews instead of 101. So, okay, maybe that clarifies the second pair of terms a bit. They're both righteous, just different levels of diligence. But it leaves the first pair, righteous man and he who Serves Jury D, still looking identical. And now we have this weird third category, the non server who's still righteous. It feels like a riddle.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: It really does. How can one extra review make such a huge difference? It seems completely out of proportion.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: And this is exactly where the author of Tanya steps in and just brilliantly resolves the whole thing.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Right. They use that core distinction. We started with the perfectly righteous versus the intermediate person to unlock it all. Suddenly, these terms aren't repetitive or confusing. They're incredibly precise descriptions of different states, different kinds of spiritual engagement. The author shows us the layers of meaning, revealing depth of that ancient wisdom. It wasn't being repetitive. It was being incredibly nuanced.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: It's about the internal dynamics.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Okay, so here's where it gets really good. Let's get into the author's explanation for that first pair. He who serves G.D. versus a righteous man D. When the text says he who serves gd, the author points out. Look at the verb serves, present tense. Active. Ongoing. This isn't just a title someone holds. It describes someone currently working, actively laboring in their divine service.
Right now, it implies effort, exertion, a continuous process.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like saying someone is building a house. You picture the action, the effort involved in that moment. It's not just a builder as a static label.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Exactly. And this service, this labor, it's defined as that ongoing struggle against the inner negative drive. The text even uses this powerful image, the body, as a small city. And inside this city, our good side and our bad side are constantly fighting for control.
The whole point of this service, this act of struggle, is to overpower that negative impulse, to stop it from taking over the city. You know, to prevent it from showing up as a nasty thought or a sharp word or a harmful action using our body, our organs.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Right? So think about, let's say, impatience. The intermediate person, the one serving egd, feels that impatience bubble up. The negative drive is there. Wanting to snap, maybe. But through their active service, they consciously fight it down. They choose not to let it become a rude comment or an angry glare. They feel the urge, but they overpower it. That fight is disservice. It's a constant battle. Yeah. Requires focus, self awareness, commitment. And this active, ongoing battle is the defining thing for the intermediate person. They are literally serving GD through this continuous effort. The service is the Struggle.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: So then contrasting that with a righteous man, or sometimes it's put as a servant of gd, makes perfect sense here. Servant isn't about what you're doing right now. It's more like a title you've earned an achieved status.
Like calling someone a master craftsman or, you know, a professor. It points to a state they've reached.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Exactly. It's an identity earned through past effort.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: So the perfectly righteous individual, that first category we talked about, they have already finished their service. That war with the inner negative drive. They fought it, they won, they banished it. It's gone. The text has this beautiful phrase. The place where that negative nature used to sit in their heart is now void within them, just empty of that conflict. Wow. And that completion, that total victory, earns them the title a servant of gd. They aren't serving in the sense of actively struggling anymore because the service is done. They've reached that state of inner peace.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: So putting it all together, the distinction becomes really sharp, doesn't it? And it solves that puzzle. From the ancient text, he who serves gd, that's the intermediate person actively fighting the battle right now, day in, day out. Their service is the struggle itself, the ongoing effort.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: It's the grit, the daily choice.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: And a righteous man or a servant of gd, that's the perfectly righteous one. The one who's already won the war. Their struggle is over. They live in that state of achieved goodness. So the terms aren't repetitive at all. They describe totally different stages, different realities of spiritual achievement. One is in the fight, the other has finished it. That's a huge difference.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Absolutely clarifies so much. But now, now we have to tackle the other part of the puzzle. That second pair from the verse and the really tricky statement from the ancient wisdom text, he who serves GD versus he who serves him not.
Remember, the ancient texts said both are righteous, but one studies a hundred times the other 101.
This is where the author's explanation sits even more.
Well, subtle and fascinating.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Yeah, this is the real head scratcher, initially.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: So, unpacking this non serving person, the author explains that even within the intermediate category, people who aren't perfectly righteous, there are these two levels. The one who serves and the one who apparently serves him not. And the big question is just how?
How can someone serve him not and still be called righteous? It seems completely contradictory, it really does.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: But the text clarifies this person. The one serving him not has never committed even a small transgression, ever. They fulfill all the positive commandments. They possibly Can. And incredibly, they are constantly studying sacred texts. So much so that their mouth never ceased from study, even when it was difficult. And remember that study is considered equal to all other commandments combined in ancient thought.
So outwardly, this person looks incredibly pious, diligent, flawless. A truly good person by any normal standard.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Right? So they're doing everything right. They're righteous, they're steadying, non stop. So why on earth call them he who serves him not? It just doesn't seem to fit what's missing.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Okay, here's the crucial point, the absolute core of it.
This person does not wage any battle against his inner negative drive to vanquish it.
And why don't they fight that battle? Because remarkably, their inner negative drive doesn't fight back. It doesn't oppose them when they try to study or do good deeds. It just doesn't get in their way. So they don't need to wage war against it. They don't feel that strong pull towards transgression that requires a conscious, active fight.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: So it's about the lack of internal friction.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Precisely. Think of someone who's just naturally studious, calm temperament, maybe a bit bookish. For them, sitting and learning for hours isn't a battle against restlessness, it's just what they like doing. It comes easily. Or someone who doesn't struggle much with, say, desires for rich food or luxury. Just because they're naturally temperate, they don't feel strong cravings for those things. Maybe they just have a naturally mild disposition. Their basic personality, their innate character, is already aligned with doing good things. They're good, yes, but it flows from their nature, not from overcoming huge internal resistance.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Wow, okay, that's a massive difference in internal experience. So the consequence then is that because they don't face this big internal fight, they don't need to spend hours meditating on the greatness of the divine to build up awe, you know, as a defense against doing wrong. Others might need that conscious effort. And they also don't need to actively generate this deep conscious love for genie to motivate themselves to do good deeds or study. They just do them. It flows naturally from who they are.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Exactly. Their actions are sufficiently motivated by what the text calls the hidden love of gt.
This is described as an inherent, maybe subconscious, but powerful spiritual connection present in everyone in their tradition.
It's like this deep underlying love and innate bond. And for these individuals, because their natural personality traits are already so helpful for spiritual life, this hidden latent love is enough. It guides them without needing to be consciously stoked or brought into awareness. It's like having a car that's just perfectly suited for the road it's on. You don't need to floor the accelerator or fight the steering wheel. It just goes smoothly. They are righteous, but it's a righteousness of natural alignment, not one forged in constant active inner battle.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: So, pulling that together, the author explains, this person isn't considered one who is serving GD because that hidden love, the thing motivating them, it's not something they achieve through their own effort or struggle. It's more like an inheritance, a spiritual gift they were born with or received.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: A birthright, not a trophy won in battle.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Right. Whereas for someone who does have to fight their negative side, which is probably most of us, that hidden love isn't enough by itself. It needs to be actively brought out, made conscious, felt used as fuel for the struggle. But for the person without that inner conflict, the hidden love plus their naturally good character is enough. They fulfill their duties without that conscious, grinding effort. It's a fascinating distinction showing different paths, different internal landscapes leading to righteous behavior.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: It really challenges our assumptions about what effort looks like, doesn't it?
[00:13:12] Speaker A: It absolutely does. And this distinction finally helps us understand that bizarre statement from the ancient wisdom text about the 100 versus 101 reviews. Remember, he who serves G reviews 101 times. He who serves him not reviews a hundred times. It seems so arbitrary, right? One extra view. How could that single repetition make such a profound difference and mark someone as a true server? It just feels weird.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: It does feel weird, until you get the context the author provides. It's brilliant, actually. He explains that back in those times, it was completely standard practice, the absolute norm for serious students to review every lesson 100 times. This wasn't exceptional effort. It was just what you did. Like a musician practicing scales every day. It was ingrained, expected, habitual.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Okay, so doing it a hundred times was basically automatic second nature.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
It didn't require pushing past your limits because that was the limit. The established routine. They'd likely built up that habit from a young age. It was effortless in that sense, Part of their default mode. The 101st review, though, that went beyond the custom. That required pushing past the ingrained habit, choosing to exert effort that went beyond the comfortable established zone. That's the point where the struggle kicks in. That's where service begins.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Okay, and the text gives that analogy, right, about the drivers?
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great little illustration. So these drivers, they charged one coin for 10 units of distance, standard rate. But if you wanted to go. 11 units. They charged two coins, double the price for just one extra unit of distance. Why?
[00:14:42] Speaker A: Because that 11th unit was outside their normal routine.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Precisely. It took them beyond their usual practice. It required extra effort, maybe inconvenience, something beyond the standard run. The first 10 were just business as usual. That 11th one, that was going the extra mile, literally, and required something more from them.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: So applying that back to the student, that 101st review, the one that pushes past the deeply ingrained habit form since childhood, that single review is considered spiritually equivalent to all the previous hundred combined.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: Even more, actually. The author says its quality surpasses the others because of the greater inner strength needed to do it. It's only this one extra act of consciously overriding habit that that earns the student the title he who serves GA. It's not about the number 101. It's about the effort behind that final step.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: So it's the inner shift needed to make that push. But why is that specific extra effort so powerful? What's the mechanism?
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Okay, this is the core teaching here.
To genuinely change a habit, to consciously go beyond what's automatic, you have to tap into something deeper. You need to arouse within yourself a conscious, intellectual love of Jesus. This isn't that passive hidden love we talked about. This is something you generate through effort by deeply thinking about meditating on GD's greatness, the wonders of creation, until you feel this conscious sense of awe and connection.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: So it's an active mental and emotional process.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yes. And that consciously generated spiritual energy, that act of love, is what gives you the power to overcome your ingrained nature, your habits, the pull of your lower self, that animalistic side. That's where habits live. Without actively generating this higher conscious love, you're mostly just running on autopilot on those old patterns. This conscious love gives you the leverage, the strength to break free and push through that barrier of habit. And that act, consciously overpowering your nature through a love you generated through meditation. That's described as the perfect service for an intermediate person. That's the essence of active spiritual work. That's when you truly become a server, actively reshaping your inner world. It's the leap beyond routine.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Okay, so serving GD for the intermediate person is all about that conscious effort, that struggle to push past nature or habit. And the author lays out two main ways this service can happen. The first one, the higher level, is called perfect service. That's what we just discussed with the 101st review.
You actively arouse this powerful conscious love for Ji. Through deep thinking, through meditation on divine greatness. And this love you generate becomes the force that helps you control your lower nature. It's an active push born from intense focus and effort. It's about consciously transcending your limits through spiritual work.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Right, but that sounds, well, intense. What if the struggle isn't quite at that level? Is there another way? Yes. The author describes a second type, an alternate or maybe less perfect service. This involves actively bringing to the surface that hidden love of JD that's already inside everyone.
Remember that innate connection here. The effort is to take that dormant love and make it active, bring it into your conscious awareness so it can help you control your impulses and do what's right.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: So you're not necessarily generating a new love through deep thought, but you're actively arousing the love that's already there.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Exactly. It's still considered service because it requires a conscious effort to awaken and use that hidden love.
You're still waging war against your lower nature by deliberately bringing this love latent force into play. It's maybe less demanding than the first type, which involves generating love through intense contemplation, but it's still a real conscious struggle against your default state. It's deliberately activating an existing resource.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Okay, so the defining line for service is becoming really clear now. It's about the active struggle. If someone doesn't wage any war, they don't do the deep contemplation for love, and they don't even actively try to stir up their hidden love. Maybe they just study or do good deeds because it comes easily within their natural limits. Then even if that hidden love is kind of motivating them in the background unconsciously, it doesn't count as their service because they didn't actively engage it or struggle for it.
[00:18:45] Speaker B: Right. It's like coasting downhill versus actively pedaling uphill. Even if you reach the bottom, only the pedaling counts as your effort, your service in this context. So in that case, even though they might be perfectly righteous in their actions, they're called he who serves him not.
The key takeaway is huge.
To really be called One who serves Jur, the intermediate person must be actively fighting some kind of inner battle. Either the big battle of generating conscious love through meditation, or at least the battle of actively arousing their hidden love. It's the deliberate push, the conscious effort beyond just going with the flow of your nature or habits that defines service.
It really puts the value on that consciousness striving. So let's bring this home. What does this all mean for you, listening right now, navigating your own life. This dive into chapter 15, it really clarifies these different kinds of effort, doesn't it? Whether it's spiritual work or learning a skill, or anything requiring discipline, it's not just about what you do, it's about the effort, the conscious choice, the internal wrestling match behind it.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: We've got the perfectly righteous, they've won their battles, they operate from goodness. Then the intermediate person who serves, they're in the thick of it, actively fighting their impulses, pushing past their limits, using either that generated love or aroused, hidden love. That's their service. And then the other intermediate person, the one who doesn't serve.
They're good, they're observant, but it comes naturally. There's no major internal friction, so they're not engaged in that conscious, transformative fight. It's such a powerful reminder that real growth, real change, often starts right at the edge of our comfort zone. When we push beyond habit.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Absolutely. The huge implication is that true service isn't just about the result you achieve, but about the process of wrestling with your own limitations, your own nature. It puts immense value on the effort, the struggle itself, that 101st review, it's symbolic, right? It's not just one more repetition. It represents that conscious decision to transcend habit, to bring a deeper, self generated motivation into play. That's where the magic happens. And this makes you wonder, doesn't it? How often do we maybe downplay our own efforts because they don't feel like some huge dramatic struggle? Or conversely, maybe we underestimate the real significance of that small extra step, that little push that actually takes us beyond what's easy or automatic. Think about your own routines, your habits, your goals. Where are you just coasting, doing what comes naturally? And where do you feel that need to push to find that extra bit of motivation? What does that feel like? And based on this chapter, what's the real value of that specific kind of push?
[00:21:19] Speaker A: That is a profound thought to sit with. And it gives us such a different lens for looking at our own daily efforts, big or small. It encourages us to see beyond just the actions and appreciate the invisible internal work that truly shapes us. Thank you so much for joining us on this deep dive into lessons in Tanya Chapter 15. We really hope it's giving you some surprising insights and definitely plenty to think about on your own journey.
