Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Lessons in Tanya, chapter 14.
Okay, let's unpack this. We're diving deep into a chapter that builds directly on our previous discussion. Last time we talked about a fascinating spiritual state known as the intermediate individual.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: We learned that this is someone who manages to completely avoid sin, not just in their actions and speech, but even, you know, in their thoughts.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah. They don't transgress, they don't speak negatively. They don't let forbidden thoughts really take root.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: But here's the catch, right? It's not because they've somehow, like, eliminated the desire for evil.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Not at all. That internal pole, what the text calls the animal soul, it's still very much there.
Very active, actually.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: So the reason they succeed in resisting, it's their divine soul that manages to restrain this internal negativity.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Yes, but crucially, it does so with significant aid and support from the Almighty. That part's key.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Okay, that's a great recap then. It really sets the stage for this chapter, which shifts focus in a really empowering way.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: I think it does, because while the last discussion might have left you thinking, wow, this state sounds incredibly difficult, maybe even unattainable, just this constant internal battle.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah, like, who can actually live like that all the time?
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Exactly. But chapter 14 pivots to highlight something completely different.
The attainability of this intermediate rank for everyone.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: For everyone. That's a bold claim.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: It is. The Source basically says this isn't some distant, impossible goal reserved for, you know, a spiritual elite. It's actually within your grasp.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: And that's powerful because it immediately makes this text incredibly relevant to. Well, to your own spiritual journey. Right. Your own efforts at self improvement.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Definitely. It's not just describing some theoretical state up in the clouds. It's offering a practical path.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: But to walk that path, we need to understand it clearly. So this chapter is going to zero in on exactly how the state of the intermediate individual is fundamentally different from the state of the. The completely righteous.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Right. Understanding that difference is crucial because by.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Getting that distinction, we can figure out what's truly accessible to us through our own effort. And, well, maybe where a different level of spiritual achievement comes into play. Perhaps one less dependent on our direct effort.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Exactly. It helps, you know, what kind of spiritual work is really expected of you, what's in your court, so to speak. And what kind of spiritual state is maybe some something more to aspire to. Recognizing it relies on more than just your own striving.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: It's about identifying the reachable destination on the spiritual map, really. And discovering the specific methods Offered for getting there.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Precisely. The chapter draws a very sharp, very practical distinction. It clarifies things immensely.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Okay, so let's jump into that first core idea, then. The nature and importantly the attainability of the intermediate individual state. The Source is quite clear.
This rank is attainable by everyone and something you should absolutely strive for.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Yeah. It says it's not beyond anyone's reach at any time.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: And at any time.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: That's the part that's almost revolutionary in its implication.
It says every person can be an intermediate individual at any given moment. Think about that.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Hmm. So it's not like a lifelong quest to become one eventually.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: No, it's saying that right now, in this very moment, regardless of your past or your current struggles, this. This state of being, this capacity to completely control your actions, your speech, your thoughts, is accessible to you.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: It's presented as a choice you can make, a state you can actually step into.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: That really reframes the whole spiritual enterprise, doesn't it? It makes it less about this massive struggle to transform your very essence and.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: More about exercising a capability you already possess. In a way.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Okay, but if everyone can achieve this state, how does it fundamentally differ from that of the completely righteous? Because, you know, intuitively, you might think avoiding sin in action, speech and thought is being completely righteous. What more is there?
[00:03:53] Speaker B: And this is the critical point where the chapter provides immense clarity. The key difference lies not in the outward behavior, which might look identical, but in the inward feeling.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: The feeling.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Yes. The intermediate individual does not inherently dislike evil. They don't find worldly pleasures or forbidden things automatically repulsive in their heart of hearts.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: So it's about the internal emotional response then, not just the action.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Precisely. The Source describes this feeling, the dislike or repulsion towards evil, as a matter entrusted to the heart.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Entrusted to the heart? Meaning?
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Meaning it's not something you can necessarily just command into existence through sheer willpower or intellectual understanding alone.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: The intermediate individual still has that internal wrestling match going on because the evil within their heart hasn't been genuinely conquered to the point where it's actually loathsome to them. The heart might still crave things or feel drawn to things that are selfish, or even things that are inherently negative or forbidden.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: And the Source gives an important detail here about the heart state.
It mentions something about time, doesn't it? Not all times are alike.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And that detail is used to illustrate the point beautifully.
The text explains that sometimes, maybe especially during moments of intense spiritual connection, like deep prayer or study, your heart might open up. Right? Your heart might open Up. And in those moments, you might genuinely feel a strong aversion to evil, a sense of its ugliness, its negativity. You might even feel a surge of actual loathing towards things you know are wrong.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Okay, I can imagine that.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: But then at other times, the heart can feel, well, closed, insensitive, even spiritually kind of cold or dull.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: And in those moments, despite your best intellectual efforts, despite knowing something is wrong, you might find yourself completely incapable of generating that genuine feeling of loathing for evil.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Even though you intellectually understand it's bad and you still avoid doing it.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Exactly. The avoidance in action is consistent, but the feeling isn't.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: Ah, okay, so the feeling of loathing, evil is described as fluctuating for the intermediate individual. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's just not precisely.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: But their status as an intermediate individual, which is defined by their consistent control over action, speech and thought, that's something they can maintain constantly.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: And that difference, that discrepancy, proves the point.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: It proves the point. Having a constant, deep seated, genuine dislike for evil is not the defining characteristic of the intermediate individual. If it were, their status would fluctuate wildly with your feelings.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: But since the status is described as attainable at any moment and can be.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Maintained, then the definition must rest elsewhere and must rest on something controllable at any moment.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: And that elsewhere is their actual behavior, their actions, words and thoughts.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Exactly that. The defining characteristic and therefore the core task of the intermediate individual lies only in turning away from evil and doing good in actual, tangible practice.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: So in your physical actions, what you say and what you allow yourself to think about.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Yes, it's about mastering these three domains. Irrespective of whether your heart happens to feel pure delight in the good or genuine repulsion towards the bad, at that particular moment, the focus is squarely on the executable, the controllable.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Okay, so it's action, speech and thought that are within our domain of absolute choice and control.
This contrasts sharply with the matters of the heart, the feelings and deep seated preferences which seem less immediately subject to our command.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: That's the distinction the text makes, the feelings. While that's more the battleground or the state associated with the completely righteous. The intermediate individual focuses their primary effort on the battleground of deeds, words and thoughts.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Why? Because those are the areas where.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Because these are presented as the areas where every single person is endowed with the freedom, the ability and the power of choice. You always have the power to choose your actions, words and thoughts.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: This is where the text gets incredibly practical. Then it acknowledges that your heart will crave fear things?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's realistic.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: It might crave, I don't know, some delicious but unhealthy food, even if it's technically permitted. But it comes from a selfish desire for pleasure. Or it might crave engaging in negative gossip, or maybe even things that are outright forbidden. The craving is real and it can.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Be strong, very strong. But the text insists you can overcome this craving, specifically in terms of your action, your speech, and your thoughts. You don't have to act on it.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: And it doesn't just say you can. Right. It provides the specific tool, the how to.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Yes. That's what makes it so useful. It offers an inner dialogue, a specific way of saying to one's heart to basically wrestle control back from that powerful craving.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Okay, I'm ready for the script. Lay out this inner argument.
How does the Source suggest you talk yourself out of acting on a temptation for turning away from evil?
[00:08:46] Speaker B: Okay, so when faced with a temptation, when that craving arises, you are supposed to consciously say to your heart, using reasoned argument, I do not want to be wicked.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: Just flat out state it.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: State the intent, I do not want to be wicked, not even for a moment.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Okay, that's the declaration. Why? What's the powerful reason the Source provides to back that up? How do you convince your own heart?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: The reasoning is profound and actually quite simple. Because under no circumstances do I want to be parted and severed, heaven forbid, from the 1gd.
And the source directly references an ancient sacred text which states very clearly your iniquities separate you from gd.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: So the core argument is basically connecting the dots for your own heart. In that moment of temptation, you say, look, this craving, if I give in to it, if I act on it, speak it, or even just let it sit unchecked in my thoughts, that will make me wicked, even just for this moment.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Right?
[00:09:41] Speaker A: And being wicked, even for a second, means becoming separated from the Divine Presence. And deep down, the most fundamental truth about me, the core desire buried beneath all these surface cravings, is that I absolutely do not want to be separated from Gity.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: Precisely. You use that core undeniable truth about the consequence of sin, separation from gd, and that ultimate inherent desire not to be separated to override the temporary, superficial craving pulling you in the other direction.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: So you reflect on that truth, affirm that deeper desire, and you bring your.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Will to bear on the situation.
You conclude, therefore, I do not wish to be wicked. And this empowers you to refrain from the action, the speech, or the thought.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Even while the heart's craving might still be there nagging you?
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Exactly. The craving isn't necessarily gone, but the outward manifestation is, and the mental indulgence are controlled. You've chosen the deeper truth over the fleeting impulse.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: That's incredibly practical. It's not about suppressing or magically eliminating the desire, which often feels impossible.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: No, it's about introducing a higher, more powerful truth into the internal negotiation and using that truth to make a conscious choice to override the impulse.
[00:10:51] Speaker A: Okay, so that covers turning away from evil. What about the flip side? What about actively doing good? How does this kind of inner dialogue help you perform commandments and positive actions, Especially when maybe you feel inertia or just aren't feeling particularly enthusiastic about it?
[00:11:06] Speaker B: The Source provides a parallel argument for actively performing the commandments.
When faced with the opportunity or the obligation to do good, you say to yourself, articulating the inner I desire instead to unite my soul's components with gdp.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Unite your soul with gd. How is that union achieved? Through, you know, seemingly mundane actions like speaking words of prayer or studying secret texts or performing a specific commandment?
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Well, the source explains that this union is achieved by investing the essence of your soul, your very life force, into what it calls his three garments.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: That's three garments. What are those?
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Those are action, speech, and thought. But specifically, when they are dedicated to gd, to his wisdom, like through deep study, and to fulfilling his commandments, which, when you perform these actions, speak these words, or engage in these thoughts with the intention of fulfilling Jiti's will, you are, in a sense, clothing yourself and your spiritual self in divinity. It's like wrapping yourself in his presence. This act creates a palpable connection, a real union.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: And why are these specific activitiesactions, speech, thought, dedicated to divine things called his garments?
What's the significance of that term?
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Because, as the source elaborates, these actions, words, and thoughts express Jedi's own wisdom and his own will. And GD's wisdom and will are described as being fundamentally one with Ji D himself, inseparable from his essence.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: Ah, I see. So when you're immersed in studying his wisdom or performing his will, you're not just doing something for him. You're connecting directly to his essence. You're wrapping yourself in that divine presence. Those garments.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Exactly. It's a profound connection.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Okay, so the motivation for doing good, then, isn't necessarily a burning passion or excitement about the specific commandment itself at that moment?
[00:12:56] Speaker B: It might be, but it doesn't have to be.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: It's more about this deeper, perhaps more intellectual and volitional desire for connection and union with the divine. Which you know is achieved through these specific actions.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: Correct. But where does that desire come from? Especially if, as we said, the intermediate individual still feels pulled by worldly things.
Where does the desire for union originate?
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Good question.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: This desire to unite with J through action, speech and thought, this fundamental drive to connect, it arises from something the Source calls a hidden love of J.D.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: A hidden love?
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Yes. The Source states that this love is present in everyone's heart, in every single Jewish soul, even if they don't feel it consciously or actively on a day to day basis.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Even if they don't feel loving at all.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Even then. It's described as an innate inherent connection, a spiritual truth buried deep within their being, whether they're aware of it or not.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: A hidden love that seems, well, hard to grasp. Maybe. How can someone who struggles constantly with negative desires, or maybe even lives a life pretty far removed from spiritual observance, still have a deep hidden love for deity?
[00:14:02] Speaker B: It does seem paradoxical, but the Source uses a very powerful illustration to prove the existence and the depth of this hidden love. Even someone who might appear on the surface to be spiritually distant or disconnected.
It brings up the example of the most unworthy individual. Someone who might be considered, you know, utterly disconnected from a spiritual path, consistently struggling with negative behaviors or neglecting religious observance almost entirely.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Okay, the person seemingly furthest away. What does the Source say about them?
[00:14:32] Speaker B: It makes the remarkable, really surprising point that even this most unworthy individual is still capable of sacrificing their life for the sanctity of genie.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Sacrificing their life?
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Yes. If faced with a situation where they were forced under duress to deny genie or abandon their fundamental connection to him, even this person would choose death over denial.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Wow, that does seem completely contradictory to their usual behavior. Someone who appears to have little or no regard for divine connection in daily life would seem suddenly be willing to die for it.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: And that is precisely the paradox that reveals the truth of the hidden love. This incredible ability to give up everything, even life itself, stems directly from that innate, deeply buried connection.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: So it's always there underneath.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Always. It's a love so fundamental that it doesn't need conscious cultivation or daily feeling to exist.
But when that core connection is threatened at the most profound level, being forced to deny Gigi Boom.
That hidden love is instantly activated. It surges to the surface, overriding everything else, all other desires, fears, considerations, and demonstrates the incredible depth of the bond that was always there, hidden beneath the struggles and the neglect.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: It's like the ultimate proof that the love is real and present in everyone, even if it's usually latent or hidden.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Exactly. It's undeniable proof.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: But then the Source directly addresses the obvious question this raises, which you alluded to. If even the most unworthy individual loves GD so deeply that they would sacrifice their life, why on earth do they sin in their daily lives? Why do they neglect commandments when there's no life or death threat?
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Right. It seems completely illogical. This is where the concept of a spirit of folly comes in.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: A spirit of folly?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Yes.
The Source attributes this paradox, the seemingly irrational behavior of sinning, despite possessing an inherent ultimate love, to a spirit of folly that overcomes them at certain times.
It's not presented as a lack of love, but rather as a kind of temporary spiritual blindness or delusion that descends upon them in the moment of temptation or inertia.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Okay, a spirit of folly.
What exactly is this folly in this context? What are they being foolish about?
[00:16:45] Speaker B: The Source explains that this spirit of folly makes them imagine falsely that their sin won't actually affect their connection to Jindi, or that it won't truly sever their soul from Jindi.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Ah, so they delude themselves.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: They delude themselves into thinking they can sort of have their cake. The two indulge the craving and somehow remain connected unaffected.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: But the truth, according to the Source, is the absolute opposite. Sin does cause a separation.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. The text is unequivocal on this. At the very moment of sin, a separation from jinnity does occur, full stop.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: So if the individual genuinely understood, felt, and internalized that truth in the moment, they wouldn't sin.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: The spirit of folly acts like a veil, a temporary distortion field, making them imagine a false reality where consequence doesn't follow action, or where their essential connection is somehow magically immune to their behavior.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: And what about neglecting the positive commandments? How does the spirit of folly relate to just not doing the good things you're supposed to do?
[00:17:45] Speaker B: It works. Similarly, the most unworthy individual neglects positive commandments because when that spirit of folly is upon them, they essentially forget about the deep love of Jan hidden in their heart.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: They forget the motivation?
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Exactly that. Innate love is the natural underlying drive to connect with Jan by fulfilling his will. When that love is forgotten or temporarily obscured by this folly, the motivation for performing commandments weakens or maybe even disappears entirely for that moment.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: So it's less about a fundamental lack of the essential connection or love, and much more about these moments of forgetting or being deluded by this spirit of folly that just distorts their perception of reality and consequences.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Precisely. And this is exactly where the intermediate individual distinguishes themselves. They make a conscious choice to reject that delusion.
The source suggests they make a resolution as part of that inner dialogue we talked about. They say to themselves something like, but as for me, I have no desire to be such a fool as he to deny the truth.
[00:18:45] Speaker A: Ah. Consciously identifying the temptation or the inertia as stemming from that folly and rejecting it.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Yes. And the truth they're affirming is that dual reality we've discussed.
First, that sin does separate you from Judas, and second, that you do possess this natural inherent love which compels you deep down to fulfill commandments as the way to connect and unite with him.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: So the intermediate individual actively confronts the temptation or the inertia by recognizing the nature of the spirit of folly and consciously choosing not to succumb to its delusion. They actively remember and affirm the fundamental truths about their soul's relationship with jealousy and the real consequences of their actions.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: They choose not to be a fool who forgets their deepest reality in favor of a fleeting impulse or moment of laziness.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: And the source concludes that these inner arguments, the reasoning about separation from zhili to turn away from evil, and the desire for union with zhidi to do good, these are effective tools.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Yes. Specifically effective in the conflict with the animal soul regarding actual behavior, thought, speech and action, those controllable domains.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: So by consistently applying this reasoning, by actively engaging in this internal dialogue and consciously rejecting the spirit of folly, one.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Can always turn away from evil and do good. And by doing so consistently, day in, day out, moment by moment, they can attain and maintain the state of the intermediate individual.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: It's a state achieved and sustained through conscious effort, adherence to truth, and the strength of will, effectively overriding the fluctuating desires and feelings of the heart.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Exactly. It really solidifies the definition. They aren't defined by some magically transformed emotional state where evil holds no sway or good is always exhilarating.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: No, they're defined by their consistent victory in controlling their actions, speech and thoughts moment by moment, despite whatever internal challenges or lack of feeling they might experience.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Precisely. And understanding this brings us right back to the crucial distinction with the completely righteous and helps clarify what happens in that deeper realm of matters of the heart that we touched on earlier.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Right. Because as we've clearly established now, simply controlling your behavior, as vital and achievable as that is, isn't the same thing as truly feeling a deep intrinsic abhorrence towards evil or experiencing a spontaneous overwhelming delight in divinity?
[00:21:07] Speaker B: No, that's described as a fundamentally different level of spiritual attainment altogether. Truly disliking and despising the evil one might still be tempted by, whether it's with that absolute violence, visceral hatred like the perfectly righteous, or maybe a less intense but still genuine aversion like the incomplete righteous. That state is something the Source says cannot be attained through mere human effort alone.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Okay, why is that? Beyond our direct effort, we can control actions. Why not feelings eventually?
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Well, according to the Source, achieving that genuine, deep seated abhorrence of evil requires something more than just willpower or habit. It requires a very, very intense level of love, of gdp.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: More intense than the hidden love.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Much more intense and consciously experienced. Not just the hidden innate love that would make you sacrifice your life in an ultimate test, but a conscious experiential love that is so powerful it completely transforms your emotional landscape. This intense love is specifically characterized by something called delighting in ghibliness.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Delighting in giddliness. That sounds beautiful, but also kind of abstract. What does that look like or feel like, according to the Source? How does it explain that?
[00:22:15] Speaker B: You use the powerful analogy to help us grasp it. It says this delight is akin to the bliss experienced by souls in the purely spiritual realm known as the World to come.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: In that state, souls are described as basking in the radiance of the Divine Presence. It's portrayed as a state of profound spiritual pleasure, overwhelming joy and ecstatic connection that completely transcends any physical or emotional feeling we typically experience in this world.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: So it's only when someone reaches this incredibly high level of intense blissful love and connection, this state of actually delighting in Jebliness, only then can they genuinely and consistently hate evil from the depths of their being.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Yes, that's the idea presented. Only this level of love which experiences delights, is described as being so overwhelming, so fulfilling, so all encompassing that it makes everything else, particularly worldly pleasures or temptations, feel completely dull, empty, repulsive and utterly insignificant by comparison.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: The spiritual bliss is just so real and profound that anything that detracts from it, anything that pulls you away, becomes automatically loathsome.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Exactly. The contrast becomes absolute.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: And this high level, this delighting injeet, and consequently truly loathing evil. The Source explicitly describes its nature, Right? It calls it a reward.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: Yes, this is a crucial and perhaps quite humbling point. In the text. It's described as being in the nature of a reward received from above.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Not something you earn directly, not purely.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Through your own effort. In the same way, you can command your actions or thoughts through will.
A reward, by its very definition, has to be given or received.
It can't just be taken or generated solely by the recipient's effort.
The Source references an idea found in other ancient texts about priestly service as a gift. Using it as an analogy, it suggests that this highest level of divine service, this capacity for blissful love, and the resulting true abhorrence of evil, is fundamentally a divine gift.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Okay, so if it's a gift that must be received, not just earned, then the implication is not everyone is necessarily privileged or divinely appointed to attain the state of the completely righteous in this lifetime, at least not solely through their own efforts.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: That's the clear conclusion. The Source leads us to the rank of the completely righteous, which is defined by this intrinsic loathing of evil, which in turn stems from a gifted steed of blissful delight in GI D is not presented as being within every single person's guaranteed reach. In the same way that the state of the intermediate individual is.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: That distinction is huge.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: It is. It clarifies so much.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: Okay, this understanding actually sheds light on something mentioned much earlier in the book. Right? The Source goes back to that statement attributed to Job, you have created righteous men.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Earlier, the book raised a pretty significant question about that.
How can GD create righteous men, or wicked men for that matter, if humans have absolute freedom of choice, Right?
[00:25:08] Speaker B: It seemed like a major contradiction. If someone is wicked, surely that's their undoing. Their choice G might determine physical traits or life circumstances perhaps, but not someone's core moral or spiritual state. That has to be up to us.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: So how does this chapter resolve the apparent contradiction?
[00:25:26] Speaker B: In light of this chapter's explanation of these two distinct levels, the attainable intermediate and the gifted completely righteous, the meaning of Job's statement, you have created righteous men becomes clear.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: How so?
[00:25:38] Speaker B: It doesn't mean GDS forces people to be righteous against their will, thereby negating free choice. Instead, it means the GD created certain souls with the inherent capacity, the spiritual makeup, the potential that makes them capable of attaining the rank of the completely righteous.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: Ah, capable of receiving that gift.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: Yes, capable of reaching that level, which involves the deep gifted experience of bliss and abhorrence.
It's about the potential inherent in the soul Jade created.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: So it's about the potential, the inherent spiritual capacity present in different types of souls, that Jade created from the outset.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Exactly. And the Source explicitly connects this to the idea found in ancient mystical texts that there are indeed many grades and degrees in souls it's not a one size fits all simulation.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: It mentions examples.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it gives examples. Like pious men who consistently go beyond the strict letter of the law. Strong men who gain mastery over their evil inclination, perhaps like the intermediate individual scholars of the wisdom prophets. And then different categories or levels, even within righteous men. The point is that within this vast diversity of soul types created by Gring, there are some that have the inherent spiritual potential, the specific makeup to eventually reach those highest levels, including that state of the completely righteous, which involves the gifted aspect of blissful love and intrinsic abhorrence of evil. Grimm created the potential for righteousness.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: This also perfectly clarifies the meaning behind that really interesting and initially somewhat puzzling oath that's said to be administered to every soul before it descends into the world.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Double oath? Yes.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Be a completely righteous individual and be not a wicked individual.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Right. That double command seemed redundant at first glance, didn't it? If you're commanded to be a completely righteous individual, doesn't that automatically include and be not a wicked individual? Why state the negative separately?
[00:27:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it feels like the second command in not being wicked is totally implied by the first being completely righteous.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: But it's not redundant precisely because of the distinction we've just uncovered. Since, as we've understood, not everyone is necessarily privileged by heaven to become completely righteous in this life. Meaning reaching that state of having intrinsic felt abhorrence for evil and blissful delight in gidliness.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: Because that state depends partly on a divine gift, the experience of true delight, which isn't fully under human control. In the same way our actions are.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: Exactly so. The second command provides the universally attainable standard. It's the baseline requirement that everyone is capable of reaching through their own choice.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: Ah, so the second command is the safety net, the minimum standard everyone is held to.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: Precisely. Since the very highest rank isn't guaranteed purely through your own effort and free will, they are commanded a second time, providing the absolute minimum requirement. You shall at any rate not be a wicked individual. Even if you don't reach the pinnacle of the completely righteous, you have full control over ensuring you are not wicked.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: And the second command, be not a wicked individual, is explicitly identified with achieving the state of the intermediate individual.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Yes, that state is presented as being entirely within everyone's choice and freedom, accessible at every single moment. You can, through conscious effort, through that inner dialogue, through exercising your will, control your desires and conquer your nature sufficiently so that you are not wicked for even a moment, specifically in your action, your speech, and your thought.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: And this includes obviously refraining from any transgression, but also actively performing all the positive commandments. The Source even specifically highlights the study of wisdom.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: Here it does. The study of wisdom is specifically called good in ancient texts, and in some traditions it's even described as being equal in weight to all the other commandments combined.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: Why is that?
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Because of its unique power to connect one directly with Jnni's own wisdom, which is his essence. But the main point here is that the ability to engage in all these positive actions, including the consistent effort required for deep study, is firmly within your power because of your free choice in action, speech, and thought.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: So the double oath isn't redundant at all. It perfectly encapsulates the full spectrum of spiritual aspiration and requirement.
It sets the highest ideal, strive for complete righteousness while acknowledging its dependence on grace. But it also establishes the foundational, universally achievable goal, ensuring you are, at the very least, an intermediate individual by mastering your behavior.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Exactly. The first part inspires us towards the highest potential, recognizing that some aspects are divinely bestowed gifts.
The second part grounds us firmly in what is achievable through our own conscious effort and free will, providing the essential requirement for every single person.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Okay, but this raises another really important question, I think. If the state of the completely righteous, the one characterized by that true abhorrence of evil and genuine delight in ground, is partly a gift, why should someone who is currently working on being an intermediate individual, someone focused on controlling their actions, speech and thought, why should they even bother striving for that higher emotional state?
[00:30:43] Speaker B: It's a very logical question.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah, if you can't actually earn that deep feeling of abhorrence or delight just through trying, why chase it? Why not just perfect the accessible state, the intermediate one?
[00:30:55] Speaker B: It's a fair point. And the Source addresses this directly. Despite the completely righteous state being described as, in part, a gift, the text unequivocally states that everyone should still strive to emulate the service associated with it.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Emulate it? How do you emulate a feeling you don't have?
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Specifically, the text advises one should train oneself to dislike worldly pleasures and consciously try to awaken delight in the love of gd, even if the genuine article isn't there yet.
[00:31:22] Speaker A: Okay, but how do you do that training if you don't genuinely feel it? What's the method?
[00:31:26] Speaker B: By using reflection, deep contemplation to train yourself to dislike worldly pleasures, the Source suggests you reflect deeply on their transient nature, their ultimate emptiness, how they decay and pass away.
The wise person, the text says, doesn't just see the immediate pleasure, but foresees what becomes of it eventually, its dissolution, its lack of lasting value.
You use your intellect to analyze the superficiality and temporary nature of physical delights compared to the eternal value of spiritual connection.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: So intellectual conviction first and for delight.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: In Jader similarly, through reflection, you reflect deeply on Jato's greatness, his infinite nature, his absolute unity, his connection to everything, his goodness. You use intellectual contemplation about divinity to try and stir an emotional response, to awaken a sense of awe or love.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: But the Source acknowledges, doesn't it, that as you do this, you might feel like. Like you're just producing a fantasy, like you're just pretending.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: Yes, this is a very real and important point raised in the text. It's honest about the experience. You might intellectually reflect on the emptiness of worldly things, but, you know, still feel their pull quite strongly. You might contemplate GD's greatness for hours, but feel little or no genuine, spontaneous delight bubbling up inside.
It can definitely feel like you're just going through the motions, creating a mental image or an imagined feeling, rather than experiencing the authentic, deep seated emotion that defines the tr.
Completely righteous.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: And the question naturally arises then, why exert yourself so strenuously for something that feels like mere spiritual fantasy? Especially in spiritual service, where sincerity and truth seem paramount. Isn't this somehow inauthentic?
[00:33:11] Speaker B: It feels counterintuitive, definitely. Why strive for an emotional state that doesn't seem achievable through this method alone? And where your effort might feel kind of fake or forced, but the answer, according to the Source, cuts right through that feeling of futility. It says, nevertheless, one must do their part.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: We must.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: You absolutely must engage in this effort, this striving for the higher state, because it is part of fulfilling that original oath administered before birth. You make the effort. You perform the actions of striving, the reflection, the contemplation, the training of your emotions, even if it feels like a fantasy internally. Because that is what is within your power to do, to uphold your side divine expectation. You do your part, and then the text says, Jed will do as he sees fit, whether to grant you the state, the feeling, the gift, or not.
That part is up to him. But your job is to strive.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: Ah, okay. So the sincerity of the effort lies not in the immediate emotional result which might be lacking, but in the act of striving itself in fulfilling the divine mandate to aspire to the highest, regardless of whether you achieve the full feeling instantly through that effort alone.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: Precisely. It's an act of Will, commitment and obedience to the command to strive.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: And the Source doesn't stop there. It offers a further, quite practical, benefit of this consistent, albeit potentially feelingless effort.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: What's that?
[00:34:33] Speaker B: A habit brings in the principle habit reigns supreme in all matters. It becomes like a second nature.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: Okay, habit. But how does habit help you reach a state of genuine feeling, which we just established isn't purely about effort alone?
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Well, while habit alone might not magically grant you the ultimate level of delighting in jedliness that is described as a gift, the Source suggests something very interesting. It says that when you get used to training yourself to dislike evil, even if it starts as a purely intellectual exercise or feels forced, it will, through the sheer power of habit, eventually become somewhat truly disliked. Over time, the repeated mental rejection starts to wear a groove, so to speak.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Okay. It starts to feel more natural.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Exactly. And similarly, when you make it a habit to actively try to rejoice in jedley through focused reflection and contemplation, even if it initially feels intellectual or like you're just generating an idea, that repeated practice, that habit, can lead to something more genuine, something beyond just imagination.
The habit itself creates a kind of pathway, or maybe a receptivity in your heart and mind that wasn't there before.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: Interesting. So habit can actually change your baseline, even if it doesn't get you all the way to the ultimate gifted state.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: On its own, it seems to prepare the ground. And this leads directly to another fundamental principle mentioned in the Source, one that connects our actions and efforts down here to spiritual realities up above, which is an arousal of man below brings a corresponding arousal above.
[00:36:00] Speaker A: Okay, explain that. What does that mean here?
[00:36:02] Speaker B: This is a core mystical concept that applies directly to this. Striving your effort in the physical and psychological realms. You're striving your inner dialogue, your training of emotions, your habit formation, even if it feels imperfect or incomplete, can actually trigger a response from the spiritual realms above.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Like a trex. Like almost.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: In a way, the Source suggests that perhaps after all this dedicated human effort, after you've done everything within your power to strive for that higher state, even feeling like it's just fantasy, a spirit from above may descend upon him.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: A spirit from above descending. What exactly does that spiritual assistance entail in this context? How does it work?
[00:36:41] Speaker B: The Source elaborates, describing it in terms of a spiritual connection or assistance.
Sometimes this concept is referred to using terms like impregnation in other mystical texts, but the Source here explains it in its own way, clarifying. And it's not about one soul taking.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Over Another, okay, important distinction.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Very. It suggests that maybe a spiritual charge or an influx of divine energy, perhaps originating from the soul of a completely righteous individual who has achieved that state, or maybe even directly from the divine Source itself.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:12] Speaker B: Might become connected to the intermediate individual soul, the one who has been striving so diligently.
[00:37:18] Speaker A: So it's not like a full soul transmigration, where one soul is like change to or dominates another body.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: Exactly. The Source explicitly notes this distinction. It's not the assisting soul being bound or taken over. Instead, it provides a spiritual charge, an influx of higher spiritual energy and capacity, without dominating the host soul or being chained to the body.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: So think of it less like a possession and more like receiving a powerful spiritual battery charge or having a higher frequency resonance connected to your own being.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: That's a good way to think about it. Yes. A boost, an enhancement, an alignment.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: And the purpose of this spiritual connection or assistance, what does it enable?
[00:37:58] Speaker B: It enables the individual to serve GD with true joy, with a level of delight in jeatliness that they simply couldn't have access purely on their own through their own intellectual reflection or habit formation alone.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: Ah.
It bridges the gap.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: It bridges the gap between the intellectual striving and the genuine felt emotional and spiritual experience of delight.
It's the divine gift component, responding to and building upon the dedicated human effort.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: This ties back beautifully to that quote referenced earlier, the one about rejoicing, Rejoice, O righteous ones.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Yes. The source suggests this quote might allude to precisely this dynamic. It refers to the rejoicing of righteous individuals. Plural.
[00:38:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:38:40] Speaker B: The idea is, when different types or levels of righteous individuals are joined. For example, when an intermediate individual, who could be considered a lower level righteous due to their mastery of behavior, connects with or receives this spiritual assistance from a higher level righteous soul or source.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: They both rejoice.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: They both rejoice. The higher source imparts its capacity for delight and spiritual joy to the lower, enabling them to experience a taste, or perhaps more of that higher state of blissful connection. The joy is shared and transmitted.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: So the striving for the state of the completely righteous, even though it's acknowledged as being partially a gift beyond our full control, isn't futile at all.
[00:39:19] Speaker B: Not in the least.
[00:39:20] Speaker A: By putting in the effort, by using reflection and building habit, even when it feels like fantasy, you fulfill the oath to strive. And crucially, you make yourself a receptive vessel, someone capable of attracting and receiving that potential spiritual assistance.
[00:39:35] Speaker B: You prepare the ground, you open the door.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: And through that combination of sustained human effort and potential Divine grace, the original oath to be a completely righteous individual can in a profound sense be truly fulfilled. Maybe not entirely through self generated means, but through this synergistic process of striving openness and receiving divine help.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: That's the profound and hopeful idea presented here.
Your effort creates the possibility and attracts the potential for a higher spiritual state, a state of true delight and abhorrence, which then enables you to serve JD on a level that beautifully integrates both your outward behavior and your deepest inward feeling.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: Wow. This has been a truly deep dive, really unpacking the intricate nuances between the intermediate individual and the aspiring righteous person. It clarifies so much.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: It really does. And if we try to synthesize the core lessons, we've clearly seen that the rank of the intermediate individual is presented not as some distant theoretical ideal, but is a practical accessible state for absolutely everyone, right here, right now.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: And it's defined primarily by that consistent control over one's actions, speech and thought, even while those internal negative desires might still persist.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: Exactly. The focus for the intermediate state is on mastering your observable behavior and your controllable thoughts, not necessarily on eliminating the internal pull towards something else or generating specific feelings on demand.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: Right. And then, in contrast, the state of the completely righteous is presented as a higher, perhaps less universally attainable level, characterized by that genuine, deeply felt abhorrence of evil and that profound experiential delight in gidliness.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: And that state is explicitly linked to a divine gift, a level of blissful love that seems to transcend mere intellectual striving or willpower alone.
[00:41:21] Speaker A: So the key takeaway seems to be this fascinating balance.
While the very highest level of emotional and spiritual transformation is described in part as a gift, our own effort is still absolutely crucial. It's not just about sitting back and waiting for grace to strike.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: Not at all. Our striving fulfills our part of the spiritual bargain it upholds that oath administered to us. And perhaps most remarkably, that very effort, even when it feels imperfect or like fantasy, can potentially attract the divine spiritual assistance that helps bridge the gap.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: Assistance that enables us to approach or maybe even attain that higher state of genuine delight and connection.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: What's really fascinating here, I think, is how the text provides such a concrete, actionable methods for self improvement.
Those specific inner dialogues for controlling actions and thoughts are incredibly practical.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah, very down to earth.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: But at the same time it offers this sophisticated understanding of the limits of pure human effort when it comes to transforming our fundamental feelings, and acknowledges the vital role that divine grace and spiritual assistance can play in that deeper transformation.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: It leaves you with powerful tools for the practical, moment by moment work of being an intermediate individual which is attainable for everyone. And it also offers a path through consistent striving and openness towards something even higher, a state of true spiritual joy. That might be a system indeed.
[00:42:46] Speaker B: And if we connect this to the bigger picture of our own lives, our own struggles, well, here's a final thought to consider. Consider this.
If even a spirit of folly, as the text calls it, can be so powerful as to make someone forget their deepest truth, their inherent connection to Gaiji, and act completely against their own essence, well, how much more powerful can focused, conscious effort be in the opposite direction?
How much can using these inner arguments, these reflections, even when it feels difficult or unnatural at first, help you actively remember your truest identity and align your behavior with that hidden love? And maybe think about how even small, consistent steps in mastering your actions and consciously cultivating better internal states through reflection, even imperfectly, how that can, according to these ancient texts, actually open the door to receiving a greater spiritual joy and connection than you might ever achieve through your own willpower alone. It's really a profound call to both diligent effort and humble openness.
