Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Have you ever stopped to think about your everyday actions? I mean, really think. Not just the, you know, the physical stuff. Making coffee, typing an email, deciding what to wear.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Right, the automatic things.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Exactly.
But what about the unseen energy?
Is there like a hidden life force in things, in us, in the world, more than just what we see?
[00:00:23] Speaker B: That's a big question, isn't it? It really shifts how you look at everything. It does, because we go through our days, you know, interacting with so much stuff, doing things, saying things, often without thinking that maybe these things have their own kind of vitality. A spiritual energy.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And that it comes from different places and that how we interact, it actually.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Matters precisely more than just physically. And that unseen dimension. That's exactly what we're digging into in this deep dive.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: We've been looking closely at this specific text, this source, that gives this really amazing kind of layered way of understanding these different levels of spiritual vitality.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Like a framework.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Exactly, a framework. It gives us a lens, really, to see maybe where the energy and things comes from, how our choices play into it, and what happens when things go spiritually wrong, maybe. And how they can be fixed.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Right. So the source text, it talks about the world getting its life, its energy from different spiritual categories or zones. That's the idea. It lays out how everything, physical stuff, our thoughts, our actions, connects back to one of these categories.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: And these categories relate somehow to good and evil or holiness, fundamentally.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Yes. Different degrees of connection to or separation from a state of true holiness or sanctity. That's the core concept.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Okay, so our mission here in this deep dive is to really try and get a handle on this framework.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Yep. Unpack it.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Understand these energy sources, figure out how our intentions and actions really shape the spiritual outcome, you know, for the vitality.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Involved, and explore what the text says about fixing negative impacts, how rectification works.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Exactly. Layer by layer. So where do we start? Well, the text kicks off with a really basic division. Where does the vitality, this spiritual life force, the energy behind existence? Where does it come from?
Now, in a previous discussion based on this source, it mentioned certain life forms, certain actions that come from a place described as completely negative, wholly impure.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Right. Things that are just fundamentally opposed to holiness at their very root.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: That's the idea. Think of it as being in a state of, like, absolute spiritual distance, totally separate.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: Okay, got it. A kind of bedrock of negativity. But the chapter we're focusing on now shifts. Right. It talks about something different.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: It does. It pivots to a really different category.
1. It calls descriptively the shell that Shines.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Shell that Shines? Hmm, interesting name. Sounds ambiguous. Like maybe it looks good on the outside, but isn't pure.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Precisely. That's a great way to put it. It's fundamentally different from those wholly unclean categories because it's not purely negative. The text is clear. It's an intermediate space, a spiritual realm that's a blend. A mixture of good and evil.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: A mix. So a lot of our everyday experience comes from this shell that shines.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: A vast amount, according to the text. Things that make up our daily lives. They draw their vitality from this specific category.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Okay, so what kind of things? Can you give some examples from the text? What gets its energy from this shell that shines?
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's quite detailed. First off, it says the vitalizing animal soul within a person that comes from this shell.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: The animal soul? You mean like our basic life force instincts, physical drives.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Exactly that. The part of the soul that gives us physical life. Basic drives, natural inclinations, you know, hunger, thirst, pleasure, basic emotions.
That energy that animates our physical body. Its root is in this mixed spiritual place.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Wow, okay, that's huge right there. Our basic physical life force comes from a place that isn't purely holy. What else?
[00:03:56] Speaker B: Well, it moves on to the physical world. It includes the souls or the vitality of animals, beasts, birds, fish. Specifically those that are permissible for consumption according to certain traditional religious laws.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Permissible food animals.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Right. It's not saying the animal itself is holy, but its life force, its spiritual root, comes from this shape, shell that shines. Which means it has a potential connection upwards, a potential for elevation.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: So the energy in the permitted meat or fish we might eat, its origin is this mixed source.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And it goes beyond animals, too. The text explicitly includes the existence and vitality of inanimate objects and plants that.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Are permissible to eat, like fruits, vegetables, grains, all of that.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: The energy that allows them to exist, to grow, to sustain us. It's rooted in this shell that shines category.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Okay, so a huge chunk of the physical world we interact with, especially our food, comes from this mixed realm. What about, like, our actions, our words, thoughts?
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Yep. This is where it gets really broad. Covering our own activity, the text says the existence and vitality of every act, utterance and thought in what it calls mundane matters that contain no forbidden aspect.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: They also come from this category, mundane matters. So just normal, everyday stuff. Going to work, walking, talking about the weather, planning your day. As long as it's not forbidden.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Precisely. Provided there's nothing inherently wrong or prohibited. About the action, the word, or the thought itself. The text is specific. It says it's neither root nor branch of the 365 prohibitive rules found in ancient wisdom or their offshoots.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: So things that seem totally neutral on the surface, not obviously spiritual, not obviously bad.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Exactly. But the text says even they have a vitality, an energy source.
And that source is the shell that.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Shines, that covers almost everything, then our basic physical energy, the primitive food we eat, the plants, objects, and all those countless ordinary actions, words, and thoughts. It all stems from this shell that shines.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: It's like the spiritual foundation of our ordinary existence, you could say. And understanding this origin is really important. It tells you that the vitality within these apparently neutral things, it's not coming from absolute negativity.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: It's.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: It has a spark, a potential connection to something higher right from its source.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Which means its fate isn't sealed.
It holds both possibilities, good and bad.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Exactly. That intermediate nature, that mix within the shell that shines, that's the key. It opens the door to everything else the text talks about regarding our choices and spiritual results.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Okay, so we have the two basic realms, wholly unclean, and this shell that shines, the source for most permissible stuff and our basic life force.
Let's dig into the nature of this shell that shines a bit more. You said it's intermediate, a blend.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Yes. The text places it very specifically. It's positioned between those three totally unclean categories, the ones completely separate from holiness and the realm of pure sanctity, or holiness itself.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Like a border region, a middle ground, a threshold space.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Exactly. And because it's on the border, it's not pure. Its basic makeup is a mixture. Good and evil combine. And that duality is baked into anything that draws its life from this source.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: A mix of good and evil. Does the text say, like, what the proportions are? Is it 50? 50?
[00:07:11] Speaker B: It does talk about that. And it's a crucial point. The text says the balance isn't the same everywhere. Not uniform across different spiritual worlds, as it calls them, but specifically for our physical world, the world of action, where we directly experience this stuff.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: In our world, the shell that shines is described as being mostly, in fact, almost entirely evil, with just the tiny bit of good mixed in.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Whoa. Almost entirely evil. Oh, that sounds pretty bleak, considering it fuels so much of our life. But there is a little good.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Yes, and that tiny amount of good is incredibly significant. According to the text, it explicitly says that this minute spark of good within the shell that shines in our world.
That's the source of the good qualities found in the animal soul.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Good qualities like what?
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Things like compassion, benevolence, natural kindness, empathy. That basic human impulse to care, to help.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: So hold on. Even our capacity for basic goodness, for feeling pity, for wanting to help someone. Yeah, that comes from this tiny spark of good embedded in the mostly negative source of our physical life.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: That's the teaching? Yes. It suggests that even at the most fundamental, instinctual level of our being, rooted in the animal soul, there's this foundational bit of good. It's quite something. It implies the potential for good is there right from the start, even if it's just a small part of that energy source.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: Okay, so the shell that shines, intermediate, mixed, mostly negative in our world, but with a vital, tiny spark of good that allows for basic compassion in our animal soul. What's the practical takeaway from this mixed nature for us?
[00:08:45] Speaker B: While the duality means that anything coming from this category, an object, an action, a word, a thought, it carries both potentials. It can be pulled towards evil or it can be lifted towards good.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Its destiny isn't fixed exactly.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: Its inherent vitality isn't locked in. And this is where our choice becomes the dec.
The spiritual fate of that vitality depends entirely on how we use it, why we do something, the intent behind it all.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Ah, okay, so the raw energy is mixed, and our actions, our intentions are like the spiritual steering wheel that decides which way it goes.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: That's a good analogy.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Which leads us right into the next really crucial idea in the text. Right. How our motivation, our why, actually transforms the vitality of these neutral, permissible things from the shell that shines.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Yes, and this is maybe one of the most practical and eye opening teachings for just daily living. It puts the focus squarely on intent. Okay, the text draws a really sharp distinction. If permissible actions, words or thoughts, the ones from the shell that shines, if they are not done for what it calls the sake of heaven, meaning not.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Aimed at some higher spiritual purpose, not about serving the divine will.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Exactly. If they lack that higher direction, then even though they're perfectly okay, permissible things coming from this mixed source, spiritually speaking, they're no better than the animal soul acting purely out of its own self centered drives.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: So just avoiding the bad stuff isn't enough to make something spiritually good. For permissible things, the why is just as important, maybe even more important than the what?
[00:10:16] Speaker B: That's it precisely. The text contrasts it. If your intention is just about satisfying the body's needs, wants, desires, pleasures, like.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Eating just because it tastes good, or chatting just to pass the time.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Or thinking about something just because it's easy or fun.
With no higher goal in mind than the vitality in that food. That chat, that thought, it stays stuck, rooted in the lower self, serving part of the shell that shines.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: And this applies even to things we need to do, like eating to survive.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: Yes. The text uses that exact example. Eating is necessary. Obviously the act itself is fine. But if the only reason you're eating is to satisfy hunger or get physical energy for its own sake, without thinking.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: About using that energy for something higher. Using your body for spiritual service.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Right. If that higher direction is missing, then even that necessary act keeps the food's vitality kind of bound in that lower realm, connected mainly to the animal soul's basic drives.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: So even fueling the body needs a purpose beyond just existing. If you want to elevate it spiritually, just eating a healthy meal to not be hungry without directing that energy upward, it leaves the spiritual energy of the food in a lower state.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: Exactly. It stays tied to the animal soul's territory. But, and here's the amazing part, the transformation. When permissible acts, words or thoughts are done for the sake of heaven, aimed at a higher purpose, then what happens? Then their vestality is described as being actively extracted from the evil, that dominant part of the shell that shines in our world.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Extracted? Like rescued?
[00:11:48] Speaker B: Kind of. Yeah. It doesn't just stay neutral, it ascends. It rises up to sanctity, to a realm of genuine holiness.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Extracted from the evil. That's a really strong image. Like you're purifying it, liberating the good spark that was trapped inside.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Yes. And the text uses this powerful traditional analogy to underline how big a deal this ascent is. It compares it to a burnt offering.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: And sacrifice, like in ancient temple practices.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Exactly. Where you take something physical, dedicate it completely to a higher power, and its whole status changes from mundane to sacred.
The text is saying, doing a mundane act with a sacred intention, it achieves a similar spiritual transformation for the energy involved. It's a dedication that elevates.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Okay, let's get specific. The examples the text gives. Eating and drinking, how does the. Why change the outcome there?
[00:12:37] Speaker B: So it uses the example of, say, eating rich food or drinking spiced wine, things often associated with pleasure.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: If you do that not just for the physical enjoyment, but maybe with the intention to use the strength and clean mind you get from it for studying wisdom or for active spiritual service.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Okay. Using it as fuel for a higher purpose, Right.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Or another case, if you eat and drink well, specifically to fulfill the positive requirement to enjoy and celebrate holy days like the Sabbath or festivals. Because enjoying those times properly, even through food and drink, is considered a spiritual service in itself.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: Ah, so the enjoyment itself becomes the service in that context.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Correct. In those cases, the text says the vitality of that food and drink is elevated. It ascends to holiness.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: So it's the exact same food, the exact same drink. Eat it just for pleasure. The energy stays low. Eat it consciously to fuel study, or as part of celebrating a holy day, the energy ascends dramatically. It's not about denying pleasure, but about directing it.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Perfectly put, the physical act is the same. The inner motivation dictates the spiritual destination of the energy.
The text also gives an example about speech, specifically making a humorous remark.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Humor. That seems so ordinary. How can a joke be elevated?
[00:13:55] Speaker B: Well, if it's just idle chatter, meaningless fun, empty words, its vitality stays rooted down low in the shell that shines.
[00:14:02] Speaker A: Makes sense.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: But the text says if you make a joke or say something funny with the specific intent to clear your mind, to gladden your heart.
And you're doing that because spiritual service should ideally be done with joy.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: Ah, so the humor is a tool to get you in the right frame of mind for something higher.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Exactly. Then the vitality of those words ascends.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Didn't it mention someone famous who did this? A historical figure?
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yes, it references a well known historical mystic. Apparently he used to tell jokes or funny little stories right before starting deep spiritual lessons with his students.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Why?
[00:14:35] Speaker B: His goal wasn't just amusement. It was to put them in a cheerful, open state of mind, more receptive, you know, ready to absorb profound wisdom. The humor was a means to a higher spiritual end.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: That's a fantastic example. It means even something as light as a funny comment isn't spiritually neutral. It can be empty. Or with the right intent, it can actually help elevate spiritual energy.
Wow. It really makes you think about every word, every thought, every bite of food.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: It completely reframes the ordinary, doesn't it? It shows the hidden spiritual potential in our most basic interactions. It's not just what we do, but the spiritual aim we give it.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Okay, so we've seen how intention lifts up the vitality of permissible things. Yeah. Now the flip side.
What happens, according to the text, when we do use those permissible things just for bodily desire? Pure self gratification, no higher purpose.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: Right. That's the outcome we want to avoid when someone indulges in permissible Things eating, drinking, other physical activities that are allowed, but solely to satisfy physical appetites, desires, pleasure, without aiming that energy higher, then the vitality of that food, drink or action gets temporarily degraded.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Degraded. Okay.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: And the text says it's not just vaguely degraded, it gets temporarily absorbed and incorporated into that category of the three holy unclean elements, the ones rooted in.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: Absolute negativity, absorbed into the wholly unclean. Whoa. That's a serious downgrade from the shell that shines, which at least had that good spark all the way down to complete spiritual separation.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yes, that's the consequence described when you use even permitted things just for self serving physical pleasure. And the text uses this really strong analogy for the person's body at that moment.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: What does it say?
[00:16:18] Speaker B: It says the body becomes like a garment and a vehicle for these three holy unclean elements.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: A vehicle like it's being driven by them, subservient.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: That's the implication. In that moment, the person's body, by chasing pleasure for its own sake, is described as sort of losing its own spiritual direction and acting like a channel or servant for these negative forces that have latched onto that absorbed vitality.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: So my physical self, when I'm just focused on physical gratification, could become spiritually controlled by negativity, even if the act itself wasn't forbidden. That's quite a thought. But you said this state is temporary.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yes, and that's absolutely crucial for permissible things. The text stresses this.
The degradation, the absorption into the unclean categories. It's temporary.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: How long does it last?
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Until the person repents and returns to spiritual service.
Basically until they shift their intention back, start directing their actions towards higher goals again. When that shift happens, the energy that was tied to the food or drink, the stuff, pulled down into the unclean zones, it gets released, it returns to sanctity. Its potential for holiness is unlocked again.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Ah, okay. So the spiritual fall for permissible items isn't permanent. They can be brought back up. Why is that possible for permissible things? What makes them different?
[00:17:34] Speaker B: The text explains it comes down to their nature. The very fact they're defined as permissible means that fundamentally they aren't permanently chained or bound to the negative side.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Unlike forbidden things.
[00:17:46] Speaker B: Exactly. Permissible things have their root in the shell that shines, which has that spark of good. Remember, their nature allows them to be released from temporary negative attachments and ascend. The potential was always there. It was just blocked by the self serving usage. When the person changes their intention through repentance, the block is removed and the latent holiness Potential is realized.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: So the vitality from the food became part of my body. If my intention was purely physical, it dragged that vitality down. But when I repent, shift my focus, and start using my body's strength for a higher purpose, the energy is freed and redirected upwards.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Precisely. The strength you gain from the food, which was maybe just serving your appetite before, is now dedicated to serving a higher goal. And the vitality that fueled that strength gets elevated along with it.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. But you mentioned something before about a lingering trace even after this rectification.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: Yes, this is a really significant detail, a consequence.
Even after the vitality of the food or drink is released from the unclean categories and ascends to sanctity through repentance, the text says a trace or a vestige of the evil remains a trace.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Why?
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Because the food or drink physically became part of the person's body. It was integrated into their flesh and blood.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: So even though the spiritual energy gets fixed, there's like a spiritual residue left imprinted on the physical body itself.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: That's the idea. And according to the text, this leftover trace in the body is the reason why after death, the body might need to go through a purification process. It's referred to as the purgatory of the grave.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: Purgatory of the grave? To clean the body?
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Yes, to cleanse the physical body itself of these final residues of negative energy that built up from using permissible things purely for physical pleasure during life. It suggests our physical actions have physical level, spiritual consequences that need dealing with even after death.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Wow, that's powerful. And maybe a bit uncomfortable. It suggests even seemingly innocent self indulgences with permissible things leave a mark on our physical selves that needs purification later.
It definitely makes you think twice about the spiritual weight of every meal, every comfort.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: It really does. It drives home the teaching that nothing we do is truly neutral. Every interaction with the world, with our own bodies, carries spiritual significance.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: Okay, so we've covered permissible things from the show that shines, transformed by intention, rectifiable through repentance, mostly. But the text draws a big line between those and things that are just fundamentally forbidden. It says their root is different and fixing them is much harder.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Yes, a crucial difference in the whole system. Forbidden acts, think, consuming prohibited foods, engaging in illicit relationships. They do not get their vitality from the shell that shines, that mixed place.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Where they get it from them.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: According to the text, they draw their vitality directly and exclusively from the three completely unclean categories, the ones rooted in absolute Negativity, total separation from holiness.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: So their spiritual starting point is much deeper in the negative realm.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: Much deeper. And because of that origin, the text says the energy within these forbidden acts gets tied and bound by these negative forces forever by default.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Forever bound by default. That sounds permanent, like spiritual imprisonment. Is there any way to release that vitality?
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Well, the text describes two possibilities for that vitality to be released and maybe elevated. But neither is easy or automatic. It doesn't get elevated unless one of two things happens.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Okay, Worry.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: The first is what the text calls the end of days. You know, that future cosmic time describe in traditions when evil itself is supposed to be completely wiped out.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: The ultimate spiritual reset.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Right. The text uses phrases like death will be swallowed up forever, the spirit of impurity removed. When those negative forces just cease to exist, the vitality they were holding captive is automatically freedom.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: So released automatically when the prison walls crumble?
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Basically by default. Yes. But the second path, that's one that can happen now in this world, before that cosmic endpoint. But it requires a very specific, very powerful, intense kind of repentance by the individual sinner.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Okay, so personal effort can achieve release now, but it's not just like regular repentance. It has to be something more.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Much more. And this brings us to a really profound concept. The text calls repentance out of love.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Love. Repentance out of love.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Okay, how does the text define that? What makes it different?
[00:22:16] Speaker B: It's defined as repentance that comes from the absolute depths of the heart. It's marked by great love and fervor. It springs from a soul that just passionately yearns for connection with the Divine.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Like an intense longing.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Exactly. The text uses this really vivid image. The soul thirsts for closeness with the Divine like a parched and barren soil craves water. It's a desperate, intense ache for that spiritual connection that was broken or lynxed through the sin.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: So the driver isn't fear or even just regret. It's this overwhelming, almost painful desire to reconnect, to come back home spiritually after being so far away.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Precisely. Love, not fear, fuels the return.
And the text suggests why it might be so intense. Because the soul was so far from holiness due to these serious forbidden acts. When it finally turns back, its thirst, its longing for connection is even greater. Its passion is more intense than someone who never sinned that badly, who never felt that profound spiritual.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: That makes a kind of psychological sense, doesn't it? Being truly lost makes the desire for home and the appreciation of it when you return so much stronger. The text even says this kind of repentance can put the person on a higher level than someone who is always righteous.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Yes. It brings up that ancient teaching where penitents stand, not even perfectly righteous can stand. The text links this to the idea that the person who always stayed close might not reach the same peak of intense, burning love for the divine that assumes soul achieves when returning from a vast distance. Fueled by this repentance out of love, the struggle itself forges a deeper bond.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Wow. Okay, so this intense repentance out of love, what effect does it have on the sins themselves, the forbidden acts?
[00:23:53] Speaker B: This is where the text gets really transformative, maybe even startling. It says that only this specific, intense kind of repentance out of love has the power to make intentional sins. The ones done knowingly become like virtues for the person who did them.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Intentional sins become like virtues? How does that work? That sounds like a contradiction.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: The text explains the logic. It was precisely because those sins created such a huge gap, such distance from holiness, that they became the very trigger, the catalyst that pushed the person to achieve this incredibly deep state of great love and intense longing for the divine when they repented.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: So the sin itself, paradoxically, led to a higher spiritual achievement?
[00:24:35] Speaker B: In a way, yes. Indirectly, the sin, by causing such a painful separation, prompted this powerful return in spiritual awakening. So retrospectively, it's seen as having contributed to reaching a higher spiritual place, a greater love than they might have achieved otherwise. So its outcome for the penitent becomes like that of a virtue.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Wow. The deepest fall became the necessary springboard for the highest descent.
It's like needing that spiritual rock bottom to build a foundation for an even stronger connection than before.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: That's a really good way to think about it. And it is only this specific type of intense repentance, this repentance out of love, that lets the vitality of those forbidden acts, the ones rooted in the totally unclean categories, be released from those categories now in this world, before the end of days.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: So if someone performs a proper, sincere repentance, but maybe it's driven more by fear or regret than this intense love, that's enough for divine forgiveness for the person, but it doesn't actually free the energy of the forbidden act from the negative realm until the end of time.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: That's the distinction the text makes. Yes.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Only this repentance out of love has the spiritual power to liberate that captured vitality now.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Correct. It shows a unique transformative power that impacts the spiritual fate of the axe energy itself, not just the person standing.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: That really clarifies the difference. It's not just about getting off the hook personally. It's about the spiritual state of the energy involved in the act.
Okay, now the text brings up one specific forbidden act that seems to be an exception. Something serious, but with a different, maybe less intense path to fixing it than others that need that repentance out of love.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. There's a specific case highlighted concerning the vitality and drops of satisfaction, semen that.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: Are emitted wastefully, meaning outside of permitted marital relations, done with holiness.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Right. That specific context is viewed differently. So for wasteful emission, the text says its vitality, just like other forbidden acts, gets degraded and pulled into the three holy unclean categories.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Okay, so the initial consequence, degradation, absorption into the unclean, is the same. Where is the difference in fixing it?
[00:26:42] Speaker B: The difference is in the path to release that vitality, unlike other major forbidden acts that need that intense repentance out of love for the vitality to ascend. Now, the vitality from wasteful emission can ascend from the unclean categories through a different process.
Still requires effort, but it's different.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: And what is that different process the text describes?
[00:27:01] Speaker B: It says it can ascend through true repentance combined with intense concentration and devotion, specifically during the recitation of a particular bedtime prayer.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: A specific prayer?
[00:27:12] Speaker B: Yes, a specific nighttime recitation. And the text attributes this teaching to a famous historical mystic, emphasizing it comes from deep spiritual insight.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: So focused intention and repentance during a particular prayer can do for this act what repentance out of love does for others in terms of elevating the vitality.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Now, that's the teaching presented. Yes. And the text uses a traditional analogy to explain how this prayer works in this situation. It calls it a double edged sword.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Double edged? How so?
[00:27:42] Speaker B: One edged spiritually, spiritually speaking, cuts away or counters the negative forces that have clothed or surrounded the vitality. The other edge actively helps the vitality itself to rise up, to ascend from its degraded state within the unclean categories.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: A spiritual tool specifically designed for this problem. That's quite an image. But why is this specific forbidden act different? Why can it be addressed this way instead of needing that profound repentance out of love? What makes it different from, say, other forbidden sexual acts?
[00:28:12] Speaker B: The text gives a really crucial qualitative distinction. It's about how the vitality attaches to the negative forces for other forbidden sexual relations. It explains the vitality gets absorbed into a deeply receiving aspect within the unclean categories described, using a female analogy for its receptive absorbing nature. This aspect, powerfully receives and absorbs the vitality, creating a really strong deep fusion with the negativity.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: Like it gets embedded deep inside negative force.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: Exactly. Fused. That deep fusion needs the immense power of repentance out of love to break it apart. But in contrast, the text says the vitality from wasteful emission is only clothed or encompassed by the negative forces.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Clothed, like wrapped around it, but not absorbed into it.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: That's the idea. It's not fused in the same deep way. It's more like being covered or surrounded. Imagine spilling paint on something non porous versus spilling it on fabric that's soaks it right up. The soaked in paint is much harder to get out.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Less deeply integrated.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Right. This less intense, less fused spiritual attachment, according to the text, is what makes it possible to release it through this different, though still very focused path of repentance and prayer. Specifically that potent bedtime recitation.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: That's a subtle but really important difference in the spiritual mechanics. So even if old texts consider this sin really serious because of the sheer amount of negative energy involved. Right.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: The quantity might be huge, but the.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Quality of its spiritual attachment to evil is different. It's less deeply stuck, allowing for this specific method of rectification in this world.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: That's precisely the conclusion the text draws. The nature of the spiritual entanglement dictates the path needed for release and ascent.
[00:29:56] Speaker A: Okay, this leads us to one last pretty sobering point. The text makes an instance where even the most powerful repentance seems to hit a wall, at least here in the physical world.
[00:30:07] Speaker B: Yes. The text brings up an old saying that points to a specific situation described as a fault that cannot be rectified in a certain sense.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: What's the saying?
[00:30:16] Speaker B: The saying quoted is, which is a fault that cannot be rectified. Having incestuous intercourse and giving birth to a child resulting from it.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Oof.
That's incredibly severe. And the text interprets this through the lens of vitality in fixing things?
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Yes, specifically through that lens, it interprets the saying as highlighting a spiritual limitation concerning the vitality involved. It explains that once a child is born from such a forbidden union, even if the parent performs the absolute highest level of repentance, that repentance of great love we talked about, the kind that can turn intentional sins into virtues.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: Even then.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Even then, the parent cannot cause the spiritual vitality that went into creating that child to ascend to sanctity.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Why not? Why does even that incredibly powerful repentance fall short here?
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Because the text explains that vitality has now descended into this world and has been clothed in a body of flesh and blood.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Ah, the physical manifestation.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Yes. The fact that the vitality is now embodied in a living physical child in this world acts as a kind of spiritual barrier.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: So the spiritual energy is now so deeply embedded and expressed in physical reality, in the child's existence, that even the immense power of repentance, of great love can't in this physical realm, pull it back out and elevate it to holiness.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: That's the limitation described. The consequence has become physical, rooted in this world in a way that blocks the spiritual component that animated the child's creation from ascending through the parent's repentance alone. At least not while the child is physically alive in this world.
[00:31:49] Speaker A: It's not about fixing the sin for the parent's forgiveness, but about elevating the specific vitality that became the child.
And that elevation is blocked by the physical reality.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Exactly. That specific elevation is obstructed by the physical manifestation.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: That's a profound and yeah, difficult concept. It really highlights how some physical consequences can create spiritual roadblocks for rectification in this world. It underlines the weight, the permanence of certain actions. Did the source offer any further thoughts on this really tough point?
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Well, there is a footnote, a nuance suggesting that rectification might become possible if that physical barrier is removed. Potentially if the child's physical life ends without the vitality being clothed in that specific physical body, it might then be able to ascend through the parents intense repentance. But that's presented as a complex point within a tragic scenario. The main takeaway focuses on the principle. The physical embodiment itself is the primary obstacle in this world.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Understood, a somber point, but it fits the framework.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: The main idea holds. Once the negative energy manifests and gets embodied in a specific way, the usual path of spiritual repair for that specific energy through the parent's repentance is blocked in this world.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Correct. It shows that while repentance is incredibly powerful, central to this whole picture, certain consequences, especially those that become physically embodied and rooted in the world, present unique, perhaps insurmountable challenges for spirit spiritual fixing in this lifetime.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: Wow. Okay. We have definitely gone deep today. Covered a lot of ground. This whole complex, layered spiritual framework.
It's intricate.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: It really is. From the basic sources of energy, the wholly unclean versus this mixed shell that shines that's behind so much of our reality.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Even our own animal soul drawing from that mixed source. And then the huge impact of our intention. How just why we do something can elevate or degrade the energy involved.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Right. Elevating permissible things to sanctity through higher purpose. Or degrading them temporarily into the unclean categories through self gratification and the paths of repentance.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: How it works for permissible things releasing that degraded energy.
But how forbidden acts rooted deeper in negativity need that intense repentance out of love to free their vitality.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: Now a much higher bar for rectification in this world for those deeply rooted negative energies.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: And finally, seeing how even that powerful repentance can hit limits when negative energy gets physically embodied in the world. It's a system that gives enormous spiritual weight to every choice we make.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: It really reveals the unseen impacts of our lives, doesn't it? It pushes for this profound self awareness, this mindfulness. Suggesting that even the most ordinary thing we do can be a chance for spiritual connection and elevation.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Or the opposite, if we're not careful pulling us down.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: Exactly. It shifts the focus, doesn't it? From just avoiding the forbidden to actively trying to elevate the permissible. Finding the higher purpose in the everyday.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: It really does. So think about all this. If our intentions, the purpose we give our actions, can actually transform the energy of the food we eat, the words we say, the thoughts we think. I mean, what does that imply about the cumulative unseen effect of our daily lives? How much spiritual potential are we just. Just overlooking or maybe even squashing in the ordinary stuff? How mindful can we really be, you know?
